-Savant
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What exactly is the "Marxist Agenda"? And in what way does it translate into fascism? Fascism is a right wing form of totalitarianism which Big business tends to support as a counter to Communism, socialism, trade unionism and even liberalism (which both Hitler and Mussolini saw as a stepping stone toward Communism. Marxists emphasize class--sometimes to the point of class reductionism. Fascists emphasize nation as primary and are RIGHT WING nationalists; often racism is an essential part of their ideology as well. Marxists tend to emphasize "proletarian internationalism, " sometimes to the point of disregarding popular nationalist sentiments (which are then exploited by reactionaries and fascists) How would the "Marxist agenda" of a democratic socialist like Rosa Luxemburg coincide with agenda of a Lenin whose authoritarianism Rosa severely attacked? How does the agenda of "Marxist humanists" coincide with the agenda of orthodox Marxist Leninists? I get the impression that this poster and many others don't have even a rudimentary knowledge of Marx or Marxism of any sort. And this ignorance is BLATANTLY obvious in those idiotic posters who think that Martin Luther King was a Communist,
-Savant
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No evidence has ever been produced that I know of which shows any money or connections King had with any Communist organizations. And the claim that King was a Communist is as silly as the claim that he was a conservative Republican. Read Thomas F. Jackson's FROM CIVIL RIGHTS TO HUMAN RIGHTS. King was a socialist, but not a Communist. Indeed, his own writings reveal that he was anti-Communist. The problem for the Establishment is that King was also anti-capitalist. Stanley Levinson, was an ex-Communist by the time he started working with King. And the FBI knew this. But the FBI was determined to CRUSH the Black Freedom movement; and labeling the Movement Communist was part of their strategy for doing so. Levinson decided to part company with King rather than jeopardize the Movement. By the way, search out information on COINTELPRO if you want to know about FBI efforts to suppress the Black movement and other liberatory movements. By the way, I would probably commend the Communists if they did support the Movement. At last they would have gotten something right. Most things they not gotten right.
-Savant
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Savant wrote: King & Socialism Now getting back to my original claim that Dr. King was a leftist, let's listen to King himself---the AUTOBIOGRAPHY when Abdurratin mentions but hasn't read. It is in connection with his visit to Scandinavia to receive the Nobel Prize: "This was, for most of us, our first trip to Scandinavia...We felt we had much to learn from Scandinavia's DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST tradition and from the manner in which they had overcome many of the social and economic problems that still plagued the more powerful and affluent nations. In both Norway and Sweden, whose economies are literally dwarfed by the size of our affluence and the extent of our technology, they have no unemployment and no slums. Their men, women and children have long enjoyed FREE MEDICAL CARE and quality education. This contrast to the limited, halting steps taken by our rich nation deeply troubled me." (AUTOBIOGRAPHY, p. 259) These comments were not published in King's life time. He did talk about how much more advanced Scandinavia was than the USA. He cautiously avoided mentioning democratic Malcolm X pointed out explicitly and PUBLICLY what King wrote privately: That these countries were SOCIALIST, and that this was an essential difference between Sweden and the USA...The reason why our country has sprawling slums while Sweden does not.(You can find Malcolm's comments in MALCOLM X SPEAKS. Don't have it at hand, but will supply the specific references as soon as I can. Yes, Malcolm and Martin were both LEFT radicals....not liberals, but revolutionaries).
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Yes, the fascists are out in force... and that is what these scum are... fascists. It is FASCISTS who scream "communism" every time you want to give a food stamp to a hungry child or make college affordable to a poor student. That's really all they've got... because in dealing with facts and reality they cannot win an argument. What policies do they have? Trickle-down? LOL... They are fascists, therefore enemies of democracy, and traitors.
-Ish Tov
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The Occupy Movement was clearly NOT marxist even though there were Marxists around. And with their General Assemblies, they were experimenting and discovering direct democracy. NOI is ANTI=-MARXIST. So was ron Karenga and his reactionary US organization. One might even make a case that these are black fascist grups, but not Marxist grops. Hence the question posed to a previous poster remains unaddressed: What is the "Marxist agenda" he speaks of, and how does it turn into Fascism. Also, if Adburratin has never heard of a marxist humanist that simply reveals the limitatons of his knowledge. Interestingly enough, I've heard conversations by members of the AAPRP during the 1980s in which they were discussing (though not in depth) thw notion of "Marxist Humanism" and its unpopularity in the USSR. Not much depth,but they at least HEARD of it. Was Abdurratin REALLY a member of the All African Peoples Revolutionary Party? But why are we even discussing this in a thread concerne dwith the legacy of Martin Luther King?--A democratic and Christian socialist, but clearly no Marxist or Communist as some simpletons in this thread have asserted
-Savant
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Savant wrote:
That's not as crazy as you may think it sounds. If society were more justly organized, people would all have enough, and those motivated to be leaders could gain in prestige rather than exhorbitant wealth at the expense of the majority, which is the case now. Should we have ultra-rich corporate managers who manipulate the entire society to their profit? Doctors driving 30' Mercedes when millions have inadequate access to healthcare? At some point it has to be decided that people will benefit by living in a better society, rather than being allowed to themselves pursue so much money and power that they're negatively impacting their fellow humans. Wow, didn't Dr. King say something similar to that?
-Savant
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Dr. King on DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM:
"This was, for most of us, our first trip to Scandinavia...We felt we had much to learn from Scandinavia's democratic socialist tradition and from the manner in which they had overcome many of the social and economic problems that still plagued more powerful and affluent nations. In both Norway and Sweden, whose economies are literally dwarfed by the size of our affluence and the extent of our technology, they have no unemployment and no slums. Their men, women and children have long enjoyed FREE MEDICAL CARE and QUALITY EDUCATION.. This contrast to the limited, halting steps taken by our rich nation deeply troubled me." (p. 259 of THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR).
Dr. King is describing what he observed, and offering his reflections on what he observed in Scandinavia while there in 1964 to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Unlike most recipients of the prize (Obama included) Dr. King actually EARNED it. Notice his admiration for Swedish social democracy. Notice his contrast between the well being of people in less wealth nations like Sweden where social justice was taken more seriously, compared to the poor quality of life and poverty of millions in this corrupt plutocracy which runs America. EVERY AMERICAN ought to be ashamed that his/her country has less well being, lesser quality of health care and education than a tiny country like Sweden or Denmark or Norway.
-Savant
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If you were not within Dr. King's closest circle of advisors and stategists, you might not have heard him talk about his democratic socialist convictions. But....there was enough in public speeches and writings at the time for anyone to know that Dr. King was at least a PROGRESSIVE if not a socialist. And there would have been SOME things that might make you at least WONDER if Dr. King was a socialist.
For examples, his open critiques of imperialism, economic exploitation and militarism in his famous speech against the Vitetnam War. He is EXPLICIT in his criticism of capitalism. And surely anyoone who was aware of the planned Poor Peoples Campaign had to know Kign wasn't trying to lead a conservative movement. There a radio talk show host in Bmore named Marc Steiner who works with WEAA. He was with the SDS at the time. He would later being in Chicago facing Mayor Daley uniformed hordes at Democratic Convention of 1968. He was actively involved in prepareing for the Poor Peoples Campaign. Whe i spoke to him of what I'd learned with the uncovering of King's previously unpublished papers, memos at conferences, private letters, Steiner said that though he didn't know at THAT TIME that Dr. King was a committed democratic socialist, he would not have been surprised had he learned of it even in the 1960s. Another activist in town who was down with the Poor Peoples Campagin tells me "Well, King was about a radical as you could be without being a Marxist. Aside from Malcolm or the Panthers, no one was more revolutionary than King.
Some famous Black reovlutionaries whom I've MET--Angela Davis, Stokely Carmichael, or Marshall Eddy Conway (still imprisoned former BP leader in Bmore)---all semed to agrre that King was certainly at least progressive, and probably revolutionary. In a phone conversation Marshall Eddy Conway, former Bmore Panther, says "If king was still around he'd definitely be with you at the Occupy activities." (He also said that he'd also be with us if he ever gets out of stir.) Now given the sanitized image of King fed to us in schools and by the corporate media, I can understand someone thinking King was just a moderate liberal. But there NO EXCUSE for thinking that King was a conservative. Brian should have his mouth washed out with soap for telling lies about King.
-Savant
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